Good stuff I like the idea of this research , I just have few questions, (1) How statistically representative is the small sample of Somalis that were tested. One question, why are we considered “Caucasoids” if we fathered the Europeans & Arabs and all Non- Africans? You say you have been to Africa but you dont seem to understand that MOST Africans have varying shades of Brown, Or dark red, or Dark yellow as their natural color. M191 – Bantu expansion Do Native Americans have “Euro-type” hair? Actually they have near Eastern and not European ancestry. Let them claim that. Even the Nubians of Egypt and Sudan are considered to be white. human development has taken at least a million year. this is a touchy subject with some black people as I have experienced and it shouldn’t be because we are all African. read ‘Mysterious lands’. Couldn’t it be that those feature originated in Africa and spread to Europe. Easty Africans are 40% Eurasian and part east Africans that had a flat long face through convergent evolution. This is a very interesting post. When you said “It’s more true of Ethiopians than Somalis, but the West Africans and South Africans were pretty isolated from East Africa for a very long time.” What did you mean? All the African groups with straight hair as part of their range have a lot of Eurasian ancestry in them- Somalis, Ethiopians, Saharan and Fulbe. You're obviously mentally challenged and fail to stay on topic. The population expansion it seems to have appeared in is the neolithic farming Capsian culture (never trust Y dates, they are always too young), but the Y chr that fatherd the first M81 had probably been sitting in North Africa for about 22k years and just got lucky in a founder effect; it could just as easily have been a Eurasian Y chromsome from the same area, but M81 got lucky. Also people from somaliland said we are mixed with yemeni people is this true they never said nothing about berbers at all. (Agree), mathilda37 – “Saying that E3b moved into North East Africa is wrong- it remained there during the backmigration ”, Back Migrated from where? Hello people interesting topic, well I am Somali and I’ve always had a concept from parents, family members and other Somalis ever since I can remember that we are different from certain other african countries, I always thought that we are a unique group (until I found out about the Ethiopians and the Eritreans lol), people in my high school and various other place say that Somalis are not Black, I’ve thought about this and I can understand how our features are not like other black people say in west,central and sourthern Africa. (agree? 4 – Genetics – Southern Egyptians have more of the Egyptian marker M78* and V12, also even V22 which links over to East Africa. http://exploring-africa.blogspot.com/2008/01/response-to-ana-m-gonzalez-et-al-2007.html. Somalis and upper Egyptians have very similar DNA profiles but no-one debates that upper Egyptians are have a lot of eurasian ancestry in them. But I have been waiting a long time for your rebuttle to see what YOUR opinion is on this specific question. It’s explaining how they figured out the rest of the world is descended from an East african population. DNA and stone tool evidence disagrees with you totally. “Phylogeographic Analysis of Haplogroup E3b (E-M215) Y Chromosomes Reveals Multiple Migratory Events Within and Out Of Africa” (Page 5), (E3b/M215………….E3b1/M35) In this example – GENETICALLY – can M58 people separate themselves from M154 people? So what then do we do with the “Black people” that are currently in, and have always been IN Egypt? I am very pleased of my ethnicity as everyone should be. They are all a ‘mixed’ bunch. No, and then some more no. Scientists recently decided to name the whole group “Somalid” (as of this year 2008, two months ago) all descendents of Haplogroup Y-DNA E1b1b which has the highest existence in Somalia at 81% (the rest of Somalia’s people are from the Eurosian haplogroup T former K2 which the American President Thomas Jefferson and the Wright brothers who invented the airplane are from. E3b1 is E-M35* – Seen in its Highest Frequencies in Ethiopia; Amhara, Oromo, Woylata= All over 10%. For example the Beja, the Cushitic group that lives from southern Egypt all the way through Eritrea that Somalis are also closely related to are also depicted with red coloring in Egyptian reliefs and they are also undeniably black African. Y-Chromosome Phylogeny”, It is speaking of the SHARING of Haplogroup A in Both Khoisan of South Africa and Ethiopians of East Africa. Berbers are essentailly a mediterranean popaultion and not that closely related to black Africans. Variant 6 The two only have a passing accquaintance. I would prefer not to be called that. V13 itself is just a downstream M78 mutation, Almost all E1b1b Somalis are M78 V12 is most closely related to m78, it has no close relationship ancestry wise to the v13 carrying European population. we have black skin , ( and not mix race skin )and have beautiful detailed fetatures , like straight/wavey hair and light bone struture . Somalis show up as 40% Eurasian on autosomal DNA studies A, ahich is about as accurate as you can get. Almost all E1b1b Berbers are M81 Hmm, is that something Eurocentric people have come up with? And I forgot to mention both of my parents are somalian, my mom looks alot like me, and my dad is light skinned but have afro hair. It’s amazing the mega hiss fits I get over this. Negotiating Full Time offers to be Part Time? Matilda, you’re wrong. It is a lot of fun to look at. The nomad’s features are dark, tall, with small borny frame, long face, nose. JB, there is some evidence that some movement from teh Sahara and East Africa made it as far as west Africa, like the Fulani/Fulbe. Any other groups came from this mutation and are just an extension of them. Cruciani states that V22* and V12* were sort of “Intermingled” and not truly defined. [/b], I am 100% European, just like R1a Albanians. Egyptian were euro asian ?! Same test with Greek V13 shows Egypt 4-20, Ethiopia 25%, Sudan 23%, Kenya 11%, Morocco7%”. I’ve read comments that girls have turned him down or broken it off because they said he was too clingy. The temples when referring to Puntites show people with “dark reddish skin, fine features, long hair” who wore “long to medium goatee”. What is your exact hg? but the Mathilda scientific article has discovered your arabocentrists lies ! … and some wall paintings and texts make it very clear that Punt was close enough to Egypt to have to hand over tribute, and Somalia is too far away to be threatened by military action from Egypt. Lets just say after having a good root through his dates and protowords, I can tell his estimated dates are less reliable than a politicans promises. I’ve deleted a few comments now, so this may not make sense to anyone reading the comments later on. Somalis have a lot of ancestry from the upper Egypt area from about 20,000 years ago, which itself had an equal mix of Eurasian (ancient Arab) and “African (ancient Sudan). {E1b1b1a1b or Variant 32 is what comes Back in Ethiopia/Sudan/Somalia etc} The fact a language has a word for yam or cattle does not mean they are farmers or herders. And what are traceable Eurasian ancestry? You’d need the fst distances; Cavalli Sforza’s book would be the place to look that up. to Igbo But if i understand you are you stating M81 comes from Arabia? say hello to the bell curve. Thus, if anything, the North African genes were a result of Horn Africans who spread northward, and then returned with the M78 mutation. Not these Ancestry tests. These are the same people who not so long ago would have come up with some fake scientific evidence to say that genetically blacks are prone to slavery or could not play baseball. if we have Asian admixture it would probably be higher. I believe if we have any Eurasian admixture it is very low. But I know why you are moving the location of the original place of E1b1…M78…it is in line with you trying to make Ancient Egypt more Euro than it was. Book Alley. Anyways, it’s good to know that we share that much, you should email that to extreme right in holland they will have an heard attack. Preliminary results from DNA tests carried out on a mummy believed to be Queen Hatshepsut is expected to support the claim by Egyptian authorities that the remains are indeed those … The West African clade E3a was found in 89.2% of the samples and the haplogroup E3b1 was not observed. East Africans does seem to have seen a lot of immigration from the Arabian penisula and from NE Africa. And those European features/Caucasian features, we donated them to you so say thank you (big grin). M1 is Asian in origin; get over it, two seperate studies by different people have come to the same conclusion, and not one geneticist currently publishing has felt the need to comment onthat conclusion negatively. My family belongs to a small tribe called the Peuhl tribe. E-M78 Instead you just hit me with more numbers about migrations and things – which is fine but i would like to see you answer this question. We resemble Somalians and Ethiopians. My question is how many european decents did the experts test to see if they had any african roots? Just becasue they aren’t black doesn not mean they are not native to Africa. What a sick mentality some of you have. (Agree) It may have lost a physical affinity with Europeans and Asians but not Genetically. What I got was an understandable response to dealing with the blantant racism of other people, who are taking a superior tone with YOU…all whilst arguing against scientific facts. At least Lamar's ex fiancee was out here getting coins and attempting to... Sassynena, Jan 11, 2021 at 8:07 PM The diiference in historic Eurasian migration between upper and lower Egypt is 8% v 3% (Y chr input/2, rounded up). Where did I say ‘European’? Afro-Asiatic languages are tied together by hunter-gathering and foraging words, not necessarily a food producing vocabulary. The donkey was used extensively in both Egypt and Nubia and I doubt that that donkeys have been in the Middle East since the 5th Dynasty when they were described as well as a Pygmy that was picked up in Yam (Below 3rd Cataract) on the way TO Punt. In Somali pharaoh translates to firqoon. Being north or west does not make your skin light. Tragic attempt by a semi DNA literate (you) to make it sound like you know waht you are talking about. Which is supported by the M1 which moved into East Africa down the Nile with the M78/E3b1. There are southern Sudanese who have M78. -There is a 10,000 year gap between Egyptian M78 and Ethiopian/Somali v32. Look below at some of the words: Hipo/Hibo (the sound b doe not exist in Hamitic languages – gift), The DNA shows a movement into Somalia not from it. You are rejecting truth from DNA and genetics such as the E3b1 haplogroup being originally from the Horn of Africa, from the birth place of humans according to most Scientists. Any link to Ethiopia is purely from common ancestry in the upper Egypt/Nubia area about 24k ago. Because of our proximity to those people. if this hair was then soffetened by eurasian dna curly hair would be observed also wavy hair or eurasian hair could be oserved and wooly hair could be acheived by the nilotic genes . I just wanted to make a few points. It is not a disputed idea, it is widely accepted. Something like 4% of Italian men, I believe it was. Berber Language is only found IN Africa. There are also populations in Arabia that have little to no M78 but do have M123 that comes from – again what i call Ethiopic M35. No Guled.. Somalis aren’t related to Berbers. This entire topic is beyond your weight class. Diagram; “Clines and Clusters Versus Race“, C. Loring Brace. While you were so busy reading up on Africa you should have learned the entire story. And as usual genetics science is used, in the past already to measure the head of blacks and say they re not intelligent, humain. They also used to have fights with them- Somalia is too far away for that. It is my strong believe that even the Amharas in Ethiopia came from Agew people not Semitic 100% as many may have believed it to be. Proto Cushitic has terms for goat and sheep herding, which means it can’t be older than 6k, but he dates it 10,000 bp.. Not a fan of his work. So, they are descendants of us not the other way around. The Y chr in Albania and Somalia are not closely related, and no he didn’t prove it. Jun 16, 2016 #31. What site did you dredge that from? Kriss I want to make this clear that this discussion has everything to do with academics but in continuing this discussion you have to also acknowledge that the history and development of Anthropology and Egyptology for that matter is very much steeped in colonialism and a history of scientific racism, eugenics etc. People did in fact travel from Ethiopia to Egypt to the Middle East, then turkey and then the Balkans …………….All along the way that Ethiopic strain of E3b (E1b1b) Mutated, and ultimately it will trace back to that Ethiopic strain of M35, that they still have to day in large numbers. To top it off,... SexyLady, Jan 11, 2021 at 8:07 PM “Cruciani et al. knowing that the existence of Berbers is too old civilizations with their Ibero-Maurisian culture came from upper Paleolithic in Morocco algeria they conquer Europe before the ice age and are then returned to their homeland by new Mutations in them specially mt-DNA M also Y-R1b that is just ripe for a change E1b1b1 among metchoids not Iberu-Maurusians! One book is “Daily life of the Nubians.” I am the guardian of a little girl whose father is Somali from Ethiopia. ^ I also recently saw a slide that showed the Siwa Berbers of Egypt to have 65% V6? I have seen many of us belonging to this tribe and we do not at all share the same features and physical characteristics as the general W. Africans do. (Mariah, from Ethiopia, living in D.C.). This lineage from Father to Son is almost untouched in this population, its has not lost anything in this population. Race and skin colour aren’t always associated. Somalia has nothing do with with Berbers at all, genetically or culturally. I am not denying that ancient Egypt had different racial admixtures because it did over time BUT essentially the Southern Egyptian that we see today and that TV never likes to show represent how the majority of ancient Egyptians prior to racial mixing used to look and they always have been historically what many in America would view as ‘black’ –even today Egyptians are referred to colloquially in Arabic as the dark ones. If it was within that time I just haven’t seen it and cleared it. E3b1 is mutation “M35” whereas E3a is mutation “M2”, M35 is Not North African. I’m still wating for an autosomal study of Somalis to appear. If you are talking about the history of the horn or other countries in the region, it is thousands of years … Arab and cacusain influences dont mean nothing when it comes to east africans, but i can see where you are getiing your points from, if you were to paint a somalian white he would look just like a white guy lol, is true that the ancient egyptians reffered somalia as the land of punt. It’s a founder effect from the neolithic (btw, that age for m81 is way too young). hi i am somalian i have read your comment and would like to clarifie something.please send me email if you are still available.thanks. You cape for East Africans in this thread but are constantly throwing slight shade towards West Africans in every thread I see you in. Because we aren’t. There are different classifications of Africans based on common features and DNA and Ethiopians, Somalis, Djiboutis, and Eritreans are often classed together. There were TWO large ones not just the Bantu. Please help me out with any info you have. Wrong again. The autosomal studies show that as a whole Somalis are about 40% Eurasian, which is about the same as Ethiopians. and are somalis somalids ? E3b lineage was subsequently brought into southern Europe during the The TRUE mixed groups are the non-Africans that have an African Genetic marker. But it varies between families. No one knows for sure. 1 – They are darker and look much more like the Ancient pigments used in the paint. The M78 mutation (y chromosome) that is present in East Africans occurred in North East Africa, not East Africa, and it occurred in a mixed Eurasian/African population. No Igbo, the parent group for Berbers E3b1 is North African in origin and about 24k old. Are you saying Somali’s are not Sub-Saharan Africans? In Egypt the mtDNA is mixed also M1, L3 & H. M78 is the clade closest to the somali type… the distribution maps for the two are on the page, there’s not any overlap. So while it shows admixture, I am not sure where from and when it came. E3b is E-M215 ONLY Seen in Sudan and Ethiopia. This is why Keita says “African” doesn’t just mean one thing. science is not be found here. but I’m not sure on that latter one). Technically incorrect, they came from a Western Eurasian population about 40k ago, who had probably been non African for about twice that length of tiime, We have the dominant gene you fool, and you are in the minority. Dictionary : Black – Pertaining or belonging to any of the various populations characterized by dark skin pigmentation, specifically the dark-skinned peoples of Africa, Oceania, and Australia. S explaining how they figured out the rest of your knowledge in North Africa yet why is that... Japanese hair… not “ Euro-type ” noses t related to Egyptians and yemeni people is this cant be! Better sailors than the Africans you are also rejecting that the Afrosiatic peoples had there origin Ethiopia. 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