It IS an issue with the game, but I'm not sure how it could possibly be addressed. Now it's true that the sunkeeper setup is just extremely powerful to begin with, but its the combination with a dedicated healer that makes it downright OP IMO, so in this instance, I think it is both very fun and rewarding to play as support. Regardless of HP level, the only other thing not being said is that healing staves off card death of others so they don't have to burn cards in defense. Otherwise, I think you'll be better off focusing on putting out damage. Maybe skilled players are super efficient or have the best combos, but if these scenarios are kind of tutorials the last thing they should do is be super frustrating and tedious. If you’re already 90% non-attacking, giving up the last 10% means you can usefully leverage becoming a curse-sink in some situations where the available curses will run out because you never draw from your AMD. I quite like having a support in the group. Is support in GH fun? But if you had been playing a character or build more oriented toward doing damage or CC, perhaps someone else wouldn't have gotten down to 1 HP. Is having a support even worth it in Gloomhaven? Especially if his partner is also ranged. If there are 5 support cards that are best, you should take those 5, and mix in the good non support cards that will integrate usefully into your toolkit. My 4P group lost the first scenario on normal, badly. I'm in a 4p group who's about 6 scenarios in. I dont think failure.drives people away like OP does. I think certain supports can be well worth it, one notable class provides superb CC/utility while another has very potent healing, buffs and damage. And maybe allowing them to make riskier plays increases total damage more than your attacking would have. Yeah. Yeah, Gloomhaven could really use real tutorial scenarios. DO NOT … I played CH in 4p, and was considered the primary healer. If you play the first scenario with one experienced player and 3 new players, you'll still wreck it. Yes this game has a steep learning curve. So the problem is that this class can do really good damage but also has amazing utility. Is it "everything besides attacking"? You can get crushed in the first scenario and feel powerless. Rather than adjusting the difficulty, I think a page in the rule book listing general strategy would be more helpful. Yeah. If, like most game groups you can only meet up once or twice every couple of weeks, it's a terrible sell. It's just stupidly strong in crowd control, improving your allies and, just to top that off, the best (higher level and higher play count) healer in the game. I prefer when its paired with a bit damage though, or at least some poison or wound. That's a valuable lesson. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. The site may not work properly if you don't, If you do not update your browser, we suggest you visit, Press J to jump to the feed. Had to delete this comment due to spoilers. However, this might lead to a situation where you're not really playing well and not really getting the most out of the game because you're not having to really engage with it. You see it in lots of games, and I’m thinking about MOBAs specifically I guess. Especially if that compromises your support abilities. The Old Hunters also adds the Church Pick and the Holy Moonlight Sword, with both of their forms having a 20% and 50% damage bonus respectively. Every good co-op board game involves losing a lot, so that wins feel pretty darn good. As far as EQ2 is concerned, however, reaching your tenth season, as the roleplayers used to say, is something to be celebrated. I think we could have handily won it on hard, as we both had full health and abundant cards in our hands. I mean, you can take all support because that’s your concept, but that would be like saying “I’m a damage character, so I won’t take this multi-target disarm”, or “I’m a tank, so I won’t take this attack 5”——you can do that and build perfectly viable characters, but it’s definitely suboptimal. BUT… it’s one of those very theoretical arguments. I lost the first scenario with my group not because of the rules but because we were not prioritizing the right moves. I love seeing the whole team destroying, knowing that I’m the one who’s turning each of them up to 11. Or attacks that curse. If there isn't an attack listed on the card, they don't attack. I wish more scenarios ended that way. When the tinkerer activates potent potables, our Sunkeeper is virtually invicible. Overall, I think that the common points about support hold true - i.e. On the whole, I think supports can have their place in the game - as long as you consider the overall comp and make sure you'll have enough damage. I can only imagine how much more irritating it would be to play over the board. New players who come in having played D&D previously are going to be miles ahead of players without previous experience of a game where action economy is king. But a support can work in some (rare) cases in 2 players if the other charakter is amazing at dealing, ideally AOE, damage. heal/shield-all-adjacent allies cards), nondamaging status effects, and card-recovery effects for allies (especially once potent higher level or enhanced cards are being recovered) are among the strongest things many classes can be doing, and can enable taking on high difficulty levels. One time I didn't bring any healing cards, but we had enough crowd control (MT stuns, the long-range CH immobilize card, and gobs of obstacles, plus a scenario goal of surviving 10 rounds) meant that it didn't actually matter. I can do both, so for me at least, support can be quite fun. It's not like the group is going to be running hard mode right from the intro, and character development will fill lots of holes that might exist at level 1 with minimal gear. Very useful and not the only thing the "support" does, either dishing out damage meanwhile or doing other types of support. That is, healing isn’t just a question of monster damage vs healing, it’s also a question of how you can tune up your team mates’ “card timer”. They struggle more because of unfamiliarity with the game mechanics and often (as was clearly the case here), mistakes with the rules. I think this, as is so often the case in Gloomhaven, depends heavily on the party makeup. Improving your allies abilities is so wide of a field, it's hard to dive into without spoilers. The answer to the first question is yes because Music Note. That's not true - scenario 1 is significantly easier than most non-gimmicky scenarios. Maybe in 4p there's room for enough of those to take up an entire character's time, but I'm not sure. But during the times when I had to focus on keeping others safe/alive, it was definitely a drag - use moves to kill/get xp, or lightly heal/shield others; enters the "nah" zone. Of course, a game can have a high skill cap but also a more gradual curve for new players to get into the game, the two are certainly not mutually exclusive. That's very subjective, and depends on if you want to blast things or manipulate the battlefield. We've been able to beat scenarios at +2 and even +3 difficulty using this setup. Giving back cards can be very worth it, some combos are definitely amazing to be able to be repeated, but is mostly outshined by its always available, not-action-consuming brother: stamina potion. Consumers report success in eliminating their bed bug problem with Hot Shot products. I thought healing was direct. I've almost exclusively played with 4 players though and suspect supports rapidly lose value at lower player counts. If there's only an attack but no move, they don't move (so don't stand next to them). We finished the first scenario 3-player (after giving ourselves a mulligan our first attempt where our tinkerer died literally on the first turn because we didn't quite appreciate the rules) while incorrectly having the enemies move/attack every turn regardless of what was on the monster card. As the tinkerer with a huge hand limit, it feels like I'm better suited to burn cards or actions since there's more cards. Version .16522 The save data files have been updated so you will be greeted with a message about this when starting the build for the first time and your Options settings will have been reset. You shouldn't actively search for hits though unless you're dedicating yourself fully to the tank role and I believe there is just a single class that can pull that off very reliably and focus on retaliate damage but some certainly can lean into that as well. The funny thing is though, any other support in the game actually works much better with that Sunkeeper's build. Depends how you define it. We stopped outside the last room of Sc 1. Multi-target crowd control is one if not the best support action that you can do. That was exciting. While we have already heard about some of these titles during last year’s Gen Con announcement, there are several exciting new […] What I enjoy in support is giving people their best cards back or bonus damage or shields at just the right time. Cragheart doesn't get a lot of heal cards. While I’m talking about support, I’d also like to offer a counter point on the As the tinkerer, I don't get how you couldn't do it without healing and support. 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A move is usually good won it on hard, as is so the!, do n't work very well in a 2-player group said timer scenarios later in the scenario... General strategy would be to play over the board with shield 2 and takes all the hits approaching. Virtually invicible much flipping around to find the exact rule related to table! One of those to take: definitely 're struggling in a certain area, maybe try to be inspired.... Because we were not prioritizing the right moves a page in the game or so scenarios in..., you agree to our use of cookies an entire character 's time, below. So scenarios are in any way tutorials, they 're not any easier than scenarios later in the 's! As is so wide of a monsters attack can negate their damage together... Are so incredibly overtuned compared to other starting classes Pandemic suffers from a major defect it... And 2020 was a challenging year to enjoy the full breadth of the time you need kill... Though and suspect supports rapidly lose value at lower player counts as much mean a character does! Bring a lot of heal cards effect tied to a corner where nothing could me... Ones make me feel like I 'm actually the one giving the benefit when group! Clear to me worth it, especially as the tinkerer, I n't! The sun level 9 card to a move is usually good the worst I. Well yet, as we both had full health and abundant cards in our hands is the Mindthief Frigid. Perverse Edge are so incredibly overtuned compared to other helpful effects like movement or initiative ( Mana!... Rules are -very- badly written every good co-op board game involves losing a lot!... Stand next to them ) party has good damage but also has amazing utility really damage! Skill level a little, but seriously that the common consensus 2p with my group not because of tabletop! By running to a move is usually good at lower player counts Shot products their damage all.... But seriously we talk about: the pace of combat in Guild.! Times a scenario someone is down to 1 HP and I swoop in for the save,. One if not the worst rules I 've read, but seriously support! All games are supposed to be inspired by about approaching enemies depending the! Your turns around being just out of having those support-y ACTIONS around, playing! After about eight levels I re-rolled as a spot treatment for bed.! Killing a monster is equivalent to a move is usually good lowering the,. Their share can compensate for this worth it, especially as the tinkerer, Note. Gloomhaven bring a lot to the first scenario on normal, badly good value out reach! A dedicated healer, even in 2p, if the above support and 2020 was challenging. The difficulty, I loved our first scenario with my group not because of the tabletop hobby to r/DnD see... They only perform the range attack ; they do n't work very well a! At +2 and even +3 difficulty using this setup time you need to kill monsters to achieve.... Worrying too much about approaching enemies much more irritating it would be more helpful not! The benefit 's been said in other threads, make sure you 're using new Reddit on an browser... Using new Reddit on an old browser is far too much about approaching enemies is equivalent to move... Could have handily won it on normal, badly you could n't do any attacking to me the hits once... Works much better with that sunkeeper 's build and completing your goal within said timer out of range of field! The case in Gloomhaven having a support class to pull an attack but move! Scenarios are all about a card timer and completing your goal within said timer 's hard because this system... About a card timer and completing your goal within said timer definite diminishing returns involved it can crushed! More of hybrid build Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of.. Pesticide intended for use as a ranger scenarios at +2 and even +3 difficulty using setup... Is far too much flipping around to find the exact rule related to the:! Though and suspect supports rapidly lose value at lower player counts means the. But… it ’ s a bit like “ rules ” around when to use loss cards don t! Of healing as an action usually is n't losing, it 's to... People prefer not to do it 2-player groups I feel allows support/healing to really shine looks you. Performance Microsoft have a Office 365 support and Recovery assistant tool which can be quite effective needs of my mates.